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    Content

    Pro-gamers lack an appreciation of money

    Taylor "Hydrolis" Linden on Sat, 12/22/2012 2:18AM


    This is an opinion article, and is the sole opinion of the author. It does not necessarily reflect the official stance of ESEA or its subsidiaries.

    Something that has always been fascinating to me is the amount of money professional gamers can win in such a short amount of time. Yes, I realize it is extremely hard to be a champion and win tournaments (although these days, you don’t have to come first to take home significant cash). It takes a lot of desire, discipline, and dedication (see what I did there?), but the fact still remains, there is a lot of money to win in professional gaming, and there’s plenty of opportunities to win it.

    What is and has been up for grabs:

    ESFIWorld.com just recently put out an article saying that just under $540,000 was awarded in the month of November for SC2 tournaments alone. Putting aside the topic of oversaturation in eSports (as it would be impossible for players to actually attend every single tournament and have a chance at all of that money), that’s a crap ton of a money. Not only is it a lot of money, those prize pools were also distributed among solo-competitors (not split across a team). League of Legends, another dominant eSports title, handed out over $279,000 in major events in the month of November and the upcoming title Counter-Strike: Global Offensive has been awarding tens of thousands to top competitors (mostly NiP) in recent times as well.
    Moscow Five


    This is not something new either. Fatal1ty won $150,000 for taking first in the CPL NYC World Tour Finals in 2005 for Painkiller, two DotA2 teams have won $1,000,000 each by claiming the top spot at ‘The International 2011/2012’ tournaments ($200k per player), Blizzard’s Battle.net World Championship (BWC) just gave out $100,000 for winning their SC2 tournament, and the first place prize for the League of Legends Season 2 World Championship was also $1 million dollars. This is by no stretch of the imagination an exhaustive list, as there have been hundreds of huge pay outs for players and teams across the years in a variety of different games, but the cash prizes from these events illustrate my point. Since very early on in eSports competitions, pro-gamers have been competing for life-changing amounts of money, and those who succeed, seem to do it without displaying any sort of appreciation for how much cold hard cash they’ve just won. I could be wrong, as I’m not a pro-gamer, but I’ve followed this scene religiously since 2005 and that is the impression I’ve gotten.

    Let me also say that I am not writing this article to preach. My point is not to tell everyone that they should ‘understand the value of a dollar.’ I’m a 23 year old graduate student who has only lived on his own for the past few years. I get paid to go to school (which has been the case since I started undergrad when I was 17 due to scholarships), and I have only worked a few summer jobs to pass the time. I’ve never slaved away at a minimum wage job trying to get by, I’m not trying to support a family by working two jobs 60 hours/week – I’m just a young eSports fan, like most of you. Then again, I don’t come from a wealthy family or anything either, so maybe that is why this particular issue is one that stands out to me.

    Gamers just want to win:

    You always hear competitive gamers say (and I’ve heard this numerous times over the past 7 years, from players in a variety of games): ‘I don’t do it for the money. I do it for the title, for the trophy. I just want to win; I want to be the best.’ This begs the question, are these pro-gamers being honest? Do they actually not care about the $5k, $10… or $100k they could potentially take home if they win a few games at a tournament? I’m really not sure. I would argue that they don’t care about the money all that much, because if they did – they probably wouldn’t be the champions that they are.

    So much money, so little time:

    Plain and simple: players are taking home checks after a two day eSports tournament that would take a ‘normal person’ working a full-time job (40 hours/week, 48 weeks/year) years upon years to make. Obviously the exact dollar figures come down to how much you’re making per hour, and how many weeks of vacation you’re taking, but generally speaking, you need to make about $50/hour working full time, taking about 4 weeks off per year, to make $100,000/year. For those who are not aware, $50/hour is a lot of money. You need an education and a very good job to be pulling in that kind of cash. A very small percentage of North-Americans make that kind of money, and if they do, it takes them 48 weeks at 8 hours per day to do it.
    BWC $100k Check


    Now, take someone who has went to college/university for years, acquired debt, battled for a job, moved up within a company, worked the 9-5 grind for years upon years – let’s just call that the ‘typical person.’ If you were to tell them: ‘I’ll give you the opportunity to win in two days what you have to work 2 years full-time for. All you have to do is play a video game for 8 hours a day (let’s be honest, most pro-gamers don’t even do that), you get to live in an all-expense paid team house (not all pro-players get this opportunity, but many do), you get paid a salary, you get flown around the world, you get to experience pseudo-celebrity status, and you’ll get numerous opportunities to make this money since there are numerous tournaments per year.’ How do you think they would respond?

    They would likely say that it sounds like a dream job, because it is, and most pro-gamers acknowledge that. But they would also say: ‘Wow, that’s a ton of pressure, that’s such a unique and privileged opportunity – I wonder if I could perform my absolute best with so much money on the line. Winning a single tournament could change the course of my life, my families’ lives, forever.’ This train of thought brings me to the point of this article:

    Do you think someone with ‘life experience,’ with an appreciation with how much time and energy it actually takes to make that money a ‘traditional 9-5 way,’ would approach a pro-tournament the same way as a young naïve gamer? I would say: not a chance. If you’re in the semi-finals of a tournament, and you’re back in your hotel room the night before the finals thinking ‘Wow… I can win more money in the next 24 hours than I would make in my regular job for the next thousand+ days… all I have to do is win a few more matches’ – you’re going to freak out, you will.

    I feel like having a solid appreciation of money would be crippling for a professional gamer. If a player were to sit down in the booth, during a finals match, thinking to him/herself: ‘It would take me a university degree, a great job, hundreds of days, and thousands of hours to make this money the traditional way’ – they wouldn’t be able to move their hands, they wouldn’t be able to think. It would be paralyzing, it would be too much. The only logical reason I can fathom for why some pro-gamers don’t crumble under this ‘reality’ is because they’re not aware of it. Maybe that’s why 15-16 year olds are winning SC2 tournaments left and right these days, maybe that’s why we rarely find pro-gamers older than mid-20’s. I’m not really sure – but I would be curious to see how the members of Taipei Assassins (the LoL team that won $1mil or $200k each in S2) would respond to the question: ‘How does it feel to make more money in a few days than most people in the world make in years’? My guess is that they really haven’t thought about it, no pro-gamers really have, and that is one of the reasons why they succeed.

    Closing remarks:

    I’ll leave you with this: I remember attending the NASL S3 Grand Finals (a SC2 event in Toronto, Canada) and walking out of the venue at the end of day one (it was a two day event). Stephano, one of the best players in the world,
    Team NoA
    undefeated in the tournament at that point, and he was sitting alone, on a bench, in the dark, in front of the venue. He was a heavy favourite to win the whole thing, and with $30,000 up for grabs for first place the next day, I suspected he would be nervous & anxious for the task that awaited him. Yet, when I stood there looking at him, he was just a young kid, in a country completely foreign to him, without a care in the world. Stephano has won over $200,000 in under 2 years since he started competing in SC2. Do you think he understands how much money that really is? For those who didn’t watch that tournament, the next day Stephano took first place winning significantly more money than someone working a minimum wage full-time job (40 hours a week, $10/hour) for an entire year would.

    Not bad for two days work, not bad.



    About the author:

    I’ll take this opportunity to (re)introduce myself to the ESEA community. I am Hydrolis, an eSports journalist from Canada whom has been involved in the scene since 2005. I started off writing for CheckSix Gaming in 2005, and moved along to X3O in 2008 and SK in 2010. Since then I have not been actively publishing content – but I’ve been following eSports from afar (admittedly, mostly SC2). I am a CS 1.6 ‘guy’ at heart, it is what got me into competitive gaming, and most of my previous work focused on that game.

    ESEANews has brought me on board to put out a couple editorials a month on a variety of eSports-related topics. They will be heavily opinion-based, and will revolve around my personal experiences in this scene over the past 7+ years. I hope what I put out stimulates discussion, gets you thinking, and informs some of you.

    You can check out two articles I recently published below:

    1) eSports history lesson: pro-gamers/teams of the past, former eSports titles, SC2/LoL (Dec 10, 2012)

    2) The rapid change of spectatorship & social media in eSports (Dec 13, 2012)

    Looking forward to the discussions that ensue and getting back in touch with the ESEA community!

    (Images courtesy of League of Legends & CatchGamer)
    Comments
      
    Actions
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:19am #1 Hydrolis
    Looking forward to any discussion that ensues because of this article! Also excited to provide more editorials to the ESEANews community in the future. If anyone has any suggestions for future articles, be sure to let me know. Lastly, check out the two other articles I linked at the bottom of the post, they're more retrospective in nature.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 2:21 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:24am #2 DchozN
    Referenced post #1 by Hydrolis
    Looking forward to any discussion that ensues because of this article! Also excited to provide more editorials to the ESEANews community in the future. If anyone has any suggestions for future... articles, be sure to let me know. Lastly, check out the two other articles I linked at the bottom of the post, they're more retrospective in nature.Read More
    #1

    Welcome aboard my friend :)!

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 2:24 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:24am #3 zain
    Disregard woman, acquire currency.
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:41am #4 Gio
    Very well written, I enjoyed it.
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:44am #5 viATor
    This whole articles argument is flawed and an ignorant one at that.
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:52am #6 PeaceKeeper
    Referenced post #5 by viATor
    This whole articles argument is flawed and an ignorant one at that.
    #5 you must be on crack.

    great job though Hydrolis, this has been probably one of the best articles i have seen on the site.
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:56am #7 wickedsv
    Lol not really an argument
    Referenced post #5 by viATor
    This whole articles argument is flawed and an ignorant one at that.
    #5 as much as a general opinion. Not enough money, never enough money.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:05am #8 apayne-
    This argument does not run smoothly. More than an organic argument, the article looks like a series of loosely related reflections. Also, there are controversial (and potentially fallacious) claims and analogies that should not be used as evidences support the conclusion.

    6/10 Keep them coming though! (Appreciate the writers effort, just needs improvement. Also I do not mean to attack you, this is merely constructive criticism)

    Edit: referring to post above; every opinion is an argument.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 3:07 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:08am #9 TMO
    what is the point in an article like this? not reading just because of how dumb the title sounds
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:11am #10 kevinw0w
    not a bad read
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:16am #11 G-MAN
    A couple points.

    1. The amount of hours pro gamers practice means that even those who pull in the large checks are putting in a fair bit of time for what they may win.
    2. For the single player games there has always been a lot of money but for the team games like CS you have to win at least five times the amount of money to get on par with what someone could win in SC2. Because of that CS players don't really take home a lot even when the prize pots get into the tens of thousands.
    3. For the team games especially if you aren't on a team that consistently places first your take home drops massively.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:18am #12 kcirt
    rip cyx
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:22am #13 Dean
    you dont even begin to address the amount of people that play for 8 hours a day and dont acquire a cent playing video games.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:24am #14 LeX
    Referenced post #12 by kcirt
    rip cyx
    #12
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:27am #15 MKP
    sc2 players play 8+ hrs a day 7 days a week so its not better than a regular job in a sense
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:28am #16 Hydrolis
    Thanks for the first couple of responses, and for taking the time to read the article. The point of this and future articles are to get people to think, to stir up some discussion, and to bring to the surface some differing opinions.

    I've been in this scene for a long time. I've done quite a bit of what you might call 'objective' eSports journalism over the years. I've posted hundreds (and hundreds) match recaps, tournament updates, and interviews that rarely lead to any comments/discussion. I have not been brought on board with ESEANews to do that kind of work.

    If you're reading these articles looking for a clear & defined point or an objective representation of eSports news - these won't be it. I would best describe this post, and my future articles, as 'off the cuff' opinions/views that I have as a die-hard eSports fan. They are my opinions, which have been constructed/developed by following eSports (pretty much on a daily basis) since 2005.

    Trolls can flame me/bash me for my OPINIONS if they want. I won't take any time to respond to those posts. I will (sometimes) respond to logical counter-arguments and differing of opinions - to help stimulate discussion.

    I wouldn't have joined ESEANews as a opinion editorial writer if I wasn't prepared/expecting to have people disagreeing with my opinions. Actually, that is precisely why I am here.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:30am #17 ForsakeN1g
    if you're playing this game for money I pity you.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:42am #18 Cant_Aim
    Games are slowly getting there. I think it's safe to say that LoL/Starcraft 2/Dota 2 has gotten to the point where it's a reasonable career choice for a lucky few. CS was on it's way there but fell short. I think one thing that is holding the industry back is the massive quantity of games that are out there. Also it's a very fast moving industry and most consumers treat a game like a weekend movie. Install, play for a week, and then move on to next thing.

    Also, Poker is the next closest thing to eSports and I hope the industry takes some lessons from that HUGE community.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:51am #19 kebs-ptl-
    Good read, keep it up.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:52am #20 biggy
    very good write up!!
    +2k
     / · 12.22.12 at 4:06am #21 Veo
    The short answer? People are afraid and largely lack the confidence it takes to become a top tier player in any of the competitive games these days. It is far easier to work $10/hr at Starbucks (and oddly enough adheres to socially acceptable standards).

    But the status quo is shifting. In 5-10 years I wouldn't be too surprised to see more competitive gamers making a living off of this stuff.

    Gaming has had a huge boost since 2008 thanks to League of Legends. You don't even have to be that good to play it (compared to the skill it takes to play Quake, CS or SC2).

    I'll agree with one of the previous comments. It is a reasonable career choice. But there are severely limited growth options when you've reached a certain age and plateau out.
     / · 12.22.12 at 5:22am #22 NVEsp
    pro gaming isnt a very stable career. its too inconsistent. you fall into a slump and you're fucked and you get dropped by your sponsor or sponsors like nothing. i wouldnt plan to make a living off it unless you can be super consistent at whatever game you play or have to switch to in the future.
     / · 12.22.12 at 5:57am #23 DustMouret
    I just don't get it. Most pros don't play for money. I mean half of these CS guys came from CAL where no money was to be made. Also if you look at NA CS, really ESEA LAN is the the only event for big money and the majority of the teams that make it to LAN use their prize money to pay for their flight and hotel and such to make it to the LAN. For example, I believe SK took 3rd place this last LAN in CS 1.6 and when it was all said and done they walked home with around $50 profit per player. So really only the champions make a solid amount of cash in CS.

    When it comes to SC2, money is a lot bigger, but winning is also a lot harder when its a 1v1 game with so many good players floating around. Those who have won a lot of money in sc2 are extremely lucky, because no matter how good you are, anything can happen at a LAN with so many talented players around.

    With that being said very few people really make a career out of esports when you sit down and think about it. I mean every cs pro I know in NA has some other job or is in school for a career. Very few NA players are salaried, besides players for big teams in sc2 and LoL. So this is not some mass phenomenon in NA.

    Also how do you know how these players value a dollar? Have you spoken to them? Do you know what they do with their money? Do you realize what else they do to earn money besides playing a game? I feel your title is misleading. I feel to make a claim that gamers lack an appreciation of money would require much more research then just pointing out how much some of them make as compared to those working a minimum wage job.

    You did a great job putting into perspective how much some pro gamers can earn, but no real solid argument as to their value of it. I am sure most of them feel lucky and are happy, and why shouldn't they be? If you can make a living off your passion then you should. So ya the title is a bit misleading. I think it should of been posted as a piece showing just how much money can be made, not trying to assume how people feel about it.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 5:59 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 6:06am #24 LND
    "Putting aside the topic of oversaturation in eSports (as it would be impossible for players to actually attend every single tournament and have a chance at all of that money)"

    Maybe there is supersaturation of tournaments for SC2 but not the rest of eSports. So please do not talk about eSports like SC2 is the only game involved in the scene.

    Maybe if people in SC2 think their scene is getting too much money they could funnel some of that to the CS scene instead.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 6:11 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 6:46am #25 Hydrolis
    Hmmm some of these comments seem to follow a theme that confuses me. The point of the article is that pro-gamers that WIN large amounts of money at tournaments likely don't understand/appreciate how much money they've just won. That facilitates the process of them winning the money in the first place, because they aren't letting that reality/pressure weigh on their performance.

    Quite simply, I think that appreciation comes with age and life experience. Pro-gamers are often very young, this is no fault of theirs, and I am not trying to bash pro-gamers. A good example that parallels this is poker players. A younger demographic of competitors wins tens of thousands of dollars in a single event and does not think twice about it. I argue that people that win extreme amounts of money (in this case, pro-gamers) likely are able to do so because the pressure/reality of the cash rewards is not apparent to them.

    I have no idea why people are posting about gaming being a profitable/viable career choice and whether pros play for money or not. This article has nothing to do with either of those things. This has nothing to do with the size (or lack thereof) of the North-American CS scene and the current prize money available. It has nothing to do with the prize money being larger in SC2, or the fact that CS players aren't salaried whereas some SC2/LoL players are. This article has nothing to do with how hard it is to win money and how money is split among games. I am not bashing pro-gamers who spend all their money to attend events and then profit $50 at the end of the day. This article is talking about the gamers that HAVE won significant amounts of money.

    'Do you realize what else they do to earn money besides playing a video game?' -- I keep trying to figure out how this relates to my article but I cannot. You mentioned the title being misleading. Maybe if I re-named the article:

    "Pro-gamers that win a lot of prize money don't understand how long it would actually take to make that money a traditional way and therefore perform better in eSports tournaments because they don't let that pressure weigh on them as they compete" -- then the title would be less misleading. Although, it would be a little long...

    I'm not sure why you're focusing in on the word 'oversaturation' lifeindanger? The only reason I brought that up was to touch on the fact that even though there is lots of money up for grabs, not every player can 'compete' for all of it. But since you mentioned it, SC2/LoL do hold the vast majority of the viewership and prize money in eSports right now - and those communities are oversaturated. Therefore, generally speaking, eSports IS oversaturated (but again, that has nothing to do with this articles point).

    So yeah, maybe if you folks read the article with my desired 'message' in mind - it will make more sense (because based on the comments, it appears the point is being missed entirely).

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 6:47 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 6:52am #26 DustMouret
    Referenced post #25 by Hydrolis
    Hmmm some of these comments seem to follow a theme that confuses me. The point of the article is that pro-gamers that WIN large amounts of money at tournaments likely don't understand/appreciate... how much money they've just won. That facilitates the process of them winning the money in the first place, because they aren't letting that reality/pressure weigh on their performance.

    Quite simply, I think that appreciation comes with age and life experience. Pro-gamers are often very young, this is no fault of theirs, and I am not trying to bash pro-gamers. A good example that parallels this is poker players. A younger demographic of competitors wins tens of thousands of dollars in a single event and does not think twice about it. I argue that people that win extreme amounts of money (in this case, pro-gamers) likely are able to do so because the pressure/reality of the cash rewards is not apparent to them.

    I have no idea why people are posting about gaming being a profitable/viable career choice and whether pros play for money or not. This article has nothing to do with either of those things. This has nothing to do with the size (or lack thereof) of the North-American CS scene and the current prize money available. It has nothing to do with the prize money being larger in SC2, or the fact that CS players aren't salaried whereas some SC2/LoL players are. This article has nothing to do with how hard it is to win money and how money is split among games. I am not bashing pro-gamers who spend all their money to attend events and then profit $50 at the end of the day. This article is talking about the gamers that HAVE won significant amounts of money.

    'Do you realize what else they do to earn money besides playing a video game?' -- I keep trying to figure out how this relates to my article but I cannot. You mentioned the title being misleading. Maybe if I re-named the article:

    "Pro-gamers that win a lot of prize money don't understand how long it would actually take to make that money a traditional way and therefore perform better in eSports tournaments because they don't let that pressure weigh on them as they compete" -- then the title would be less misleading. Although, it would be a little long...

    I'm not sure why you're focusing in on the word 'oversaturation' lifeindanger? The only reason I brought that up was to touch on the fact that even though there is lots of money up for grabs, not every player can 'compete' for all of it. But since you mentioned it, SC2/LoL do hold the vast majority of the viewership and prize money in eSports right now - and those communities are oversaturated. Therefore, generally speaking, eSports IS oversaturated (but again, that has nothing to do with this articles point).

    So yeah, maybe if you folks read the article with my desired 'message' in mind - it will make more sense (because based on the comments, it appears the point is being missed entirely).
    Read More
    #25

    My point is you are assuming that these pro players "likely don't understand/appreciate how much money they've just won."

    You have no idea if they do or not. Have you ever spoken to them about it? I mean you really have no evidence to support your claim. The only data you provide is how much some pro players can make. Then you mentioned you saw Stephano at a tourney looking calm, but you never actually spoke with him...So really you have no insight at all on how these players feel or what they think.

    For all you know a lot of these pro players do understand they are making a lot of money and are possibly quite thankful for it and in some cases feel lucky. I feel most of them are appreciative and some of them (EG sc2 guys as one example I have personally seen. I have also followed LAGtv a good bit who voice the same opinion) express how truly lucky they are to be where they are at. To me that shows an appreciation. They also appreciate their fans in most cases as well as the organizations that support them.

    So you title your article "Pro-gamers lack an appreciation of money" yet never once provide any solid argument to back that claim. So yes it is very misleading. Good opinion articles have facts and data to support the opinion being presented. All you have are assumptions.

    The article would have been better titled as something explaining how much a pro can earn, not trying to assume how they feel about it.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 6:56 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 7:00am #27 Forever0
    i quit trying to be good after cgs died.
     / · 12.22.12 at 7:10am #28 DustMouret
    You did a great job bringing awareness to the fact that some pro gamers can make a lot of money fairly rapidly. But you have nothing to back your claim that they don't appreciate it.

    I think just like any other person of wealth (pro athletes, actors, singers, etc.)it boils down to maturity when it comes to appreciating the value of the dollar. So while some may lack that maturity and take their prize money for granted, I feel there are a lot of them that realize how lucky they are to be making money doing something they are passionate about.
     / · 12.22.12 at 7:10am #29 arsoN
    What's good with all these bozo's typing paragraph responses, no one cares in the slightest unless you're a 'pro'
     / · 12.22.12 at 7:14am #30 DustMouret
    Referenced post #29 by arsoN
    What's good with all these bozo's typing paragraph responses, no one cares in the slightest unless you're a 'pro'
    #29

    I would love to see some pros respond to whether or not they appreciate their earnings.
     / · 12.22.12 at 7:18am #31 VELOCIFLACCID
    Dumb article. That's like saying professional athletes don't have appreciation for the amount of money they make because if they did the pressure would be too much be able to perform under...

    Doesn't really make sense. Money is a part motivator but these guys are just competitive. They want to win they want to play well. Money is great but it's about pride too.

    If you are confident in your game and you trust yourself you will play up to your potential.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 7:19 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 7:56am #32 nelluc
    Can't believe I wasted my time with this article, dafuk did I just read
     / · 12.22.12 at 8:00am #33 smokie
    I'm sure they appreciate their winnings, they just don't want to brag about it publicly. Not only would it be in poor taste and make them look like fools, what would it gain them?

    Can you imagine players tweeting "OMG LOOK AT THIS DON PERIGNON I HAVE SO MUCH MONEY FROM GAMING!!"

    This argument can easily be rendered useless by looking at professional sports. The players are nearly all extremely humble about their money publicly. The one's who aren't look like jerks.

    And like others here say, it's not all about the money.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 8:00 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 8:52am #34 ODDWOLF
    this opinion piece is incredibly bad. i hope esea does not pay you for this.
     / · 12.22.12 at 8:55am #35 LND
    Referenced post #25 by Hydrolis
    Hmmm some of these comments seem to follow a theme that confuses me. The point of the article is that pro-gamers that WIN large amounts of money at tournaments likely don't understand/appreciate... how much money they've just won. That facilitates the process of them winning the money in the first place, because they aren't letting that reality/pressure weigh on their performance.

    Quite simply, I think that appreciation comes with age and life experience. Pro-gamers are often very young, this is no fault of theirs, and I am not trying to bash pro-gamers. A good example that parallels this is poker players. A younger demographic of competitors wins tens of thousands of dollars in a single event and does not think twice about it. I argue that people that win extreme amounts of money (in this case, pro-gamers) likely are able to do so because the pressure/reality of the cash rewards is not apparent to them.

    I have no idea why people are posting about gaming being a profitable/viable career choice and whether pros play for money or not. This article has nothing to do with either of those things. This has nothing to do with the size (or lack thereof) of the North-American CS scene and the current prize money available. It has nothing to do with the prize money being larger in SC2, or the fact that CS players aren't salaried whereas some SC2/LoL players are. This article has nothing to do with how hard it is to win money and how money is split among games. I am not bashing pro-gamers who spend all their money to attend events and then profit $50 at the end of the day. This article is talking about the gamers that HAVE won significant amounts of money.

    'Do you realize what else they do to earn money besides playing a video game?' -- I keep trying to figure out how this relates to my article but I cannot. You mentioned the title being misleading. Maybe if I re-named the article:

    "Pro-gamers that win a lot of prize money don't understand how long it would actually take to make that money a traditional way and therefore perform better in eSports tournaments because they don't let that pressure weigh on them as they compete" -- then the title would be less misleading. Although, it would be a little long...

    I'm not sure why you're focusing in on the word 'oversaturation' lifeindanger? The only reason I brought that up was to touch on the fact that even though there is lots of money up for grabs, not every player can 'compete' for all of it. But since you mentioned it, SC2/LoL do hold the vast majority of the viewership and prize money in eSports right now - and those communities are oversaturated. Therefore, generally speaking, eSports IS oversaturated (but again, that has nothing to do with this articles point).

    So yeah, maybe if you folks read the article with my desired 'message' in mind - it will make more sense (because based on the comments, it appears the point is being missed entirely).
    Read More
    #25
    I'm focusing in on the fact that you are trying to make it sound like eSports is supersaturated. It is not. Maybe a few different titles in eSports are experiencing good fortune but eSports as a whole is not supersaturated. A lot of other games outside of SC2 and LoL have a competitive scenes which are not experiencing the same influx of money.

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 8:56 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 9:21am #36 spz
    52 weeks in a year ;x

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 9:21 am
     / · 12.22.12 at 9:25am #37 PooLarX
    LOL

    Do teens resort to drug dealing because they cannot comprehend the amount of money they can make in a short period of time vs working a regular job?

    I think you were just describing that they don't have the mentality that they are in a sense running a hustle on the system and I would have to say if you are speaking STRICTLY about NA players who are mostly slobby chunks.. then I think you are wrong.
     / · 12.22.12 at 11:22am #38 lurppis
    to counter your point:

    "easy come, easy go"

    you don't appreciate something you don't have to work hard for, exactly why poker pros don't value money at all compared to regular people

    but:

    i don't agree with the thesis of this article at all. just because you, someone who hasn't played competitively in major tournaments (or at least not really competed for prizes; placing last at a cpl doesn't count), would be nervous, doesn't mean the pros are.

    people learn to control their nerves, it doesn't mean they don't appreciate the money they win. people who win that kind of money at sc2 are very good at what they do, why would they not be compensated more than a guy who works a boring 9-5 office job 48 weeks a year? it's certainly a lot harder to be that good at a video game.

    finally:

    i really am not sure if you realize how much the very best starcraft 2 players practice. as far as i'm told stephano actually isn't one of them because he can counter the top players in other ways, but the top koreans play a ridiculous amount; enough so that most westerners simply wouldn't find that enjoyable, even with the money they're raking in.

    just because you win (or don't, if you don't do well) huge prize money in a single weekend doesn't mean you weren't working for it not only all year, but the previous years when you were still not a pro.
     / · 12.22.12 at 2:54pm #39 SpiritSlasher
    if you do it for the money, you wont get anywhere, like me for example.... I'd do anything for money, thats why I dont have any.
     / · 12.22.12 at 3:23pm #40 Joeleee
    Referenced post #25 by Hydrolis
    Hmmm some of these comments seem to follow a theme that confuses me. The point of the article is that pro-gamers that WIN large amounts of money at tournaments likely don't understand/appreciate... how much money they've just won. That facilitates the process of them winning the money in the first place, because they aren't letting that reality/pressure weigh on their performance.

    Quite simply, I think that appreciation comes with age and life experience. Pro-gamers are often very young, this is no fault of theirs, and I am not trying to bash pro-gamers. A good example that parallels this is poker players. A younger demographic of competitors wins tens of thousands of dollars in a single event and does not think twice about it. I argue that people that win extreme amounts of money (in this case, pro-gamers) likely are able to do so because the pressure/reality of the cash rewards is not apparent to them.

    I have no idea why people are posting about gaming being a profitable/viable career choice and whether pros play for money or not. This article has nothing to do with either of those things. This has nothing to do with the size (or lack thereof) of the North-American CS scene and the current prize money available. It has nothing to do with the prize money being larger in SC2, or the fact that CS players aren't salaried whereas some SC2/LoL players are. This article has nothing to do with how hard it is to win money and how money is split among games. I am not bashing pro-gamers who spend all their money to attend events and then profit $50 at the end of the day. This article is talking about the gamers that HAVE won significant amounts of money.

    'Do you realize what else they do to earn money besides playing a video game?' -- I keep trying to figure out how this relates to my article but I cannot. You mentioned the title being misleading. Maybe if I re-named the article:

    "Pro-gamers that win a lot of prize money don't understand how long it would actually take to make that money a traditional way and therefore perform better in eSports tournaments because they don't let that pressure weigh on them as they compete" -- then the title would be less misleading. Although, it would be a little long...

    I'm not sure why you're focusing in on the word 'oversaturation' lifeindanger? The only reason I brought that up was to touch on the fact that even though there is lots of money up for grabs, not every player can 'compete' for all of it. But since you mentioned it, SC2/LoL do hold the vast majority of the viewership and prize money in eSports right now - and those communities are oversaturated. Therefore, generally speaking, eSports IS oversaturated (but again, that has nothing to do with this articles point).

    So yeah, maybe if you folks read the article with my desired 'message' in mind - it will make more sense (because based on the comments, it appears the point is being missed entirely).
    Read More
    #25

    This for the vast majority of responses. He's not saying that pro-gamers are horrible people who don't like the money they get, he's saying that the young people may just not understand the gravity of the situation. This could provide an edge. This isn't the case for every pro gamer that has ever existed and by definition isn't the case for non-pro gamers such as most NA CS players. They don't earn enough to support themselves, therefore they're not really professional.

    Referenced post #38 by lurppis
    to counter your point:

    "easy come, easy go"

    you don't appreciate something you don't have to work hard for, exactly why poker pros don't value money... at all compared to regular people

    but:

    i don't agree with the thesis of this article at all. just because you, someone who hasn't played competitively in major tournaments (or at least not really competed for prizes; placing last at a cpl doesn't count), would be nervous, doesn't mean the pros are.

    people learn to control their nerves, it doesn't mean they don't appreciate the money they win. people who win that kind of money at sc2 are very good at what they do, why would they not be compensated more than a guy who works a boring 9-5 office job 48 weeks a year? it's certainly a lot harder to be that good at a video game.

    finally:

    i really am not sure if you realize how much the very best starcraft 2 players practice. as far as i'm told stephano actually isn't one of them because he can counter the top players in other ways, but the top koreans play a ridiculous amount; enough so that most westerners simply wouldn't find that enjoyable, even with the money they're raking in.

    just because you win (or don't, if you don't do well) huge prize money in a single weekend doesn't mean you weren't working for it not only all year, but the previous years when you were still not a pro.
    Read More
    #38

    Probably the only properly reasoned response on here. Lurppis doesn't hit all the points that the OP makes. However he does point out that the work put in by a lot of pros would not actually be 'enjoyable' as playing video games may be for you or me.

    Overall, I actually didn't agree with most of the article. However, though I know this is futile to say on the internet, try and keep your criticisms about what the article actually pontificated rather than on something else entirely. Oh and opinion articles aren't about facts all the time. They're opinions.
     / · 12.22.12 at 4:29pm #41 Hydrolis
    I have no problem with people disagreeing with the article. I just wish more of the comments were thought out and touched on things that actually had something to do with the article.

    For instance: 'But you have nothing to back your claim that they don't appreciate it.'

    An opinion article/editorial is not a scientific assessment. I mention: '...but I’ve followed this scene religiously since 2005 and that is the impression I’ve gotten.' The argument I am making is entirely based off of my experience as an eSports spectator/journalist for the past 7 years. That experience is what has lead me to have this opinion. The culmination of all of experiences in eSports over the years are what are driving my claims. No where in the article did I say I went around and asked pro-gamers whether they do appreciate it.

    The point of this article is not to prove whether or not professional gamers appreciate money. I would need to conduct an epidemiological study with a large sample size and a systematically derived data collection tool to determine that. I would then need to collect that data, analyze it statistically, submit a paper to a scientific journal, have that paper reviewed, and published.

    Lurppis, a long-time professional player, raises many good points. The idea that even appreciating how much money you're about to win would NOT effect your nerves/performance is a good counter-argument.

    I am actually very familiar with SC2 players/their practice regimes. I went to China for the Battle.net World Championships last month and had the opportunity to speak openly with numerous Korean/foreign SC2 pro-gamers. It's definitely true that pro-gamers put a lot of time/energy into games before they ever actually win. I would argue though that even the pro-gamers that do practice 10 hrs day/more, for a year (or even longer), and then hit a massive cash pay out (say PartinG's 100k at BWC) still wouldn't have made that money if they worked 15 hrs/day for 3 years at a 'normal job.'

    I am genuinely pumped though that people are taking the time to read the article and share their thoughts/criticisms/opinions!

    Last modified on 12/22/2012 at 4:30 pm
     / · 12.22.12 at 4:33pm #42 bsgt
    Interesting read.
    nice one hydrolis
     / · 12.22.12 at 4:51pm #43 BGamer
    question 1: what do you do when you realize you have no career opportunities waiting for you after your gaming career is over?

    answer 1: move back in with mom
     / · 12.22.12 at 5:03pm #44 Skuffy
    posting for tomorrow
     / · 12.22.12 at 5:49pm #45 virulent
    I know Hydrolis drom check-six, and i know this guy has a lot of experience. Good pickup esea!
     / · 12.22.12 at 6:02pm #46 _26
    really nice article, good insight
     / · 12.22.12 at 6:22pm #47 insepT
    what an awful article. holy christ


    No shit a 18-21 year old kid doesnt appreciate money.
     / · 12.22.12 at 6:40pm #48 trerobinson1
    ive played in some big tournaments and trust me, im always thinking of the money on the line, even when its only 1000-1500 dollars for first im still thinking mostly about that when i play, obviously i liked being ranked up there in the top players/teams of the game in css but dont get me wrong everytime i attended a tournament my goal was to win the MONEY, the bragging rights and what not was an afterthought. i know im not a pro on the level of those u were speaking of but ive been in my fair share of large tournaments and this is just my opinion :}
     / · 12.22.12 at 8:20pm #49 b1gz
    LOL...
     / · 12.22.12 at 10:04pm #50 iTech
    Referenced post #47 by insepT
    what an awful article. holy christ


    No shit a 18-21 year old kid doesnt appreciate money.
    #47

    "No shit most 18-21 year old kids don't appreciate money."

    Fixed that for you.
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